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How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ?


jazz Joined on 07 Απρ 2005 Total posts: 444	How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? Τετάρτη, 18 Φεβρουαρίου 2009 3:58 μμ Once a World ballroom dance leader there has been a decline in England in Professional dancers participation in competitions. First it was blamed on injuries, later followed by more sincere admissions and announcements of couples divisions and splits. Some of them surprised us, others disappointed. New partnerships were formed, tested just to fizz out. Can WDC's importance be sustained with the English icons providing only some coaching and administrative (adjudicating ) functions ? Has BDC supported a new generation of professional/ amateur talent to replace those who have stepped down ? Which country will be the next dance superpower. Can Italy be the one with the best dancers ? Can Italian style become the style to copy ?
Elaine Joined on 28 Ιαν 2003 Total posts: 144	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? Τετάρτη, 18 Φεβρουαρίου 2009 9:24 μμ A very interesting topic Jazz! Sadly in England we now have very few competing professional couples, especially in latin and a look back at the entries in the pro events at the British National Championships and the UK Closed Championships over the past few years shows this to be the case. There are also very few professional comps held in England, other than the major open events and the two closed events mentioned above, so for amatuers who like to compete on a regular basis, the lack of competitions means that if they wish to turn pro and continue to compete regularly their only option would be to travel to compete abroad, along with the expense that this entails. So for those who love to compete rather than have a yearning to teach, there isn't really any incentive to turn pro, other than perhaps the fact that it could possibly be argued that with the exception of the worlds very top pro's, that the competition is probably tougher in both quantity and quality in the Amatuer field?? A fact perhaps borne out by the worlds top amatuers being able to turn pro and go straight into the top six in pro?? Unfortunately the BDC have not supported a new generation of amatuer talent to replace the icons that England is now losing on the competition floor. What little support there is for amatuers comes via EADA but they are limited by lack of resources to do much to help. With the lack of any form of "club" system in the UK, the sad reality is that the younger dancers, (juvenille, junior, youth) have to rely on parental finance and support and amatuers have to be lucky enough to have a job with a sufficient income to pay for it all. It is the young dancers of today who will be the top pro's of tomorrow but I fear that unless something drastic is done soon, then not many of these will be British!!!!!!!! Yes England was once a world leader before we taught the rest of the world to dance!!! Our very respected teachers imparted their knowledge to others around the globe, who in turn now pass that on to their pupils. Other nations have soaked up this knowledge and then developed that with their own style and flair. Add the fact that whether we like it or not, it is now classed as a sport, which presumably makes faster and higher part of the game, is the classical english style of ballroom dancing going to become a thing of the past???? Sorry I am now asking more questions - lol
el cordobes Joined on 19 Ιαν 2005 Total posts: 142	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? Τετάρτη, 18 Φεβρουαρίου 2009 11:10 μμ Hi Elaine and Jazz... We discussed that topic before...and well...it is just a matter of years now before the generation who is still teaching and judging retires completly and this will be it. The main comps could still be run if the organisers of Blackpool for instance start to invite foreign judges. Anyway, the reasons have been discussed many times before (no clubs, hardly no federation, only individual interests) and the main reason is simply a very liberal economy which has driven the cost of living in the UK to the ceiling which is why it doesn't make any sense to dance at a high level unless you are a fanatic. People from abroad may not realize but the level of debt per inhabitant in the UK is one of the highest in Europe. You could say...it is cultural and yes in some respects but even the east-europeans living here can't manage to dance at a high level as financially they can't. It might change though with long term migrants. So to answer your question...Is WDC affected?....they know it is over here... apart from a remaing medallist system which again I am not sure attracts that many youngsters now.
jazz Joined on 07 Απρ 2005 Total posts: 444	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? Πέμπτη, 19 Φεβρουαρίου 2009 3:45 πμ If WDC "know it is over here", where is "there" where it not over for WDC ? This is asked with a due respect . Is there some central "International" head quarters for WDC, if it is not in England ? What chance would less than strong British WDC have against some other rival Professional Dance Associations, be it IPDSC, or others ?
onyourtoes Joined on 12 Φεβ 2007 Total posts: 657	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? Πέμπτη, 19 Φεβρουαρίου 2009 9:13 πμ Might I suggest "not at all". The WDC stretches far beyond England. England is not the WDC. WDC officers come from such countries as Italy, Japan, Russia, USA, Germany, Netherlands, Austria. For a few years under the Presidency of Mr Breuer its headquarters were in Germany. On various sub-committees even more countries are involved. As has been said on this forum many times there must be a change and that is happening with Englands position in the dance world and also the WDC. It is natural evolution for in time the current top WDC competitors becoming the trustess of the WDC and pofessional dance. The likes of Gozzoli, Bizokas Wilkins, Soale, Cocchi, Malitowski, Surkov, Stokkebroe will become the coaches and adjudicators of the future. In many ways this widening of world influence can be a benefit.
jazz Joined on 07 Απρ 2005 Total posts: 444	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? Πέμπτη, 19 Φεβρουαρίου 2009 1:13 μμ Re: Gozzoli, Bizokas Wilkins, Soale, Cocchi, Malitowski, Surkov, Stokkebroe will become the coaches and adjudicators of the future. Jazz hopes you did not omit mention the most important - the names of the female partners, those who made the above names the greats they are ( a proof some still believe dance is the men's world, those who still live in the dinosaurs times, but lets be less sensitive and assume the other half of the greats was in your mind ) Since all of the mentioned were active, appreciative and supporting members of IDSF ( with perhaps one exception ) , and just recently the IDSF"s World Champions, that they may understand and disagree with the current situation, and eventually may be instrumental in helping to improve the relationship and mending the damages which lie in the heart and cause the growing division between IDSF and WDC, the division which is so hurtful to dancesport and also to the professionals who try make living out of dance. It is sad to see the traditional English importance fizz out. Is it possible the next tradition may be "Blackpool" and "UK Open" ? Could Verona become the next dance Mecca ? It certainly would be closer to the mentioned World greats, and may even return to dancesport some of the missing and necessary romance described in Romeo and Juliet.
quicktime2 Joined on 31 Αυγ 2007 Total posts: 181	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? Παρασκευή, 20 Φεβρουαρίου 2009 1:56 πμ Most people who regularly read dancesportinfo.net know that this thread is mainly the work of one individual carrying on a conversation with herself. The title "How is the WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitor" is an example of the oldest type of question posed not to clarify but to try to create false impressions. For example "How often do you beat your wife?" Keep amusing yourself. Yes, at one time most of the couples dancing in the Blackpool Professional Standard Final were English. This is not the case today. I think most people understand why this has happened To try to relate that to policy differences between WDC IDSF is simply ludicrous. And to apply your twisted logic and suggest that Blackpool is going to disappear because of it is more of the same.
sambatogo Joined on 29 Αυγ 2007 Total posts: 280	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? Παρασκευή, 20 Φεβρουαρίου 2009 4:54 πμ JOHNATHAN WILKINS AND HAZEL NEWBERRY, CHRISTOPHER HAWKINS AND JOANNE BOLTON, WARREN AND KRISTI BOYCE, ONCE THEY GET PARTNERS JOHNATHON CROSSLEY AND LYNN MARRINER. SOMEHOW I DON`T THINK ENGLAND HAS TO WORRY ABOUT THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE IN STANDARD. LATIN AT THIS TIME DOES SEEM DRY. BUT WHAT THEY DO HAVE IS WORKING VERY HARD. SAMBATOGO.
onyourtoes Joined on 12 Φεβ 2007 Total posts: 657	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? Παρασκευή, 20 Φεβρουαρίου 2009 7:22 πμ jazz Since all of the mentioned were active, appreciative and supporting members of IDSF ( with perhaps one exception ) , and just recently the IDSF"s World Champions, that they may understand and disagree with the current situation, and eventually may be instrumental in helping to improve the relationship and mending the damages which lie in the heart and cause the growing division between IDSF and WDC, the division which is so hurtful to dancesport and also to the professionals who try make living out of dance. ---- What a very wild assumption made here! As Amateurs the couples had no alternative but IDSF! Has it escaped your attention that these couples have failed to support IPDSC events. Has it escaped your attention that the top Italian Professional competitors reject FIDS and their competitions. Has it escaped your attention some have very publicly supported IDSF banned events like The Dutch Open the Italian Open and the WDC Am League in Paris. Do you have even the slightest knowledge what these couples are telling the WDC Competitors Commission. From your words the answer must be NO. I would like to highlight some of your words "the division which is so hurtful to dancesport and also to the professionals who try make living out of dance." Is there a better way to describe the WDC members than "the professionals who try to make a living out of dance" ? They try to heal the divisions but it is those who have no interest in dance but love the power who are opposed to unity.. Returning to your question - WDC is not and will not be affected by fewer English Professional competitors. Maybe England should import champions from other nations - the fashion in some countries.
jazz Joined on 07 Απρ 2005 Total posts: 444	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? Παρασκευή, 20 Φεβρουαρίου 2009 1:15 μμ sambatogo JOHNATHAN WILKINS AND HAZEL NEWBERRY, CHRISTOPHER HAWKINS AND JOANNE BOLTON, WARREN AND KRISTI BOYCE, ONCE THEY GET PARTNERS JOHNATHON CROSSLEY AND LYNN MARRINER. SOMEHOW I DON`T THINK ENGLAND HAS TO WORRY ABOUT THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE IN STANDARD. LATIN AT THIS TIME DOES SEEM DRY. BUT WHAT THEY DO HAVE IS WORKING VERY HARD. SAMBATOGO. ---- Thank you for making my point and answering the inquiry from others. Please look at the list. How many of the greats you mention A) dance together today ( please, do not take it literally, I realize there may not be a competition Feb 20 th ) ? Isn't Warren still representing this ex- Russian satellite Baltic place ? Is Hazel all peachy with the USA's Mr. Wilkins ? B) how many are English nationals and how many are imported - something Onyourtoes stressed as being important ? C) do you see togetherness and cooperation of the WDC greats such as Donnie Burns, Massimo Giogianni, Augusto Schiavo, Luka Baricchi, Pino and the rest of the WDC greats, like Mr. Vanone who teaches the WDC greats ( who Onyourtoes feels do not support IPDSC ) and adjudicates for IDSF ? Wild assumption ? Perhaps, but an assumption filled with hope. Do yo want to suggest that Mirko, or Domminico ( for example ) and Giordano Vanone do not support IPDSC just because you have not seen them in IPDCS event ? Is it perhaps they felt IPDSC event had not YET sufficiently high profile and their victory would be just too easy and not a challenge they deserve ? Jazz has shot many a good photographs of Mr. Soale and his lovely Gioia during quite recent IDSF sanctioned European and North Amarican events. Of course Domminico and Gioia won. Nobody else came even close to them in style, technique or performance. I even got some helpful tips from Gioia about ewe hair styles, since that's the only thing I can copy of hers. Onyourtoes, correctly realized and even highlighted some of Jazz's words "the division which is so hurtful to dancesport and also to the professionals who try make living out of dance." and asked: "Is there a better way to describe the WDC members than "the professionals who try to make a living out of dance " ?" Why do you assume Jazz is describing only WDC members as the professionals who try to make a living out of dance ? Would Onyourtoes accept that the division is hurting all professionals, whether with WDC, IDSF, or whom ever else ? The division hurts not only the Professionals it hurts everyone involved with dancesort, including the Amateurs, IOC, the enthusiasts who once enjoyed and looked forward to competitions and dancesport events held under less politically charged atmosphere ? But then again, it is felt it is just one person's forum talking to herself .