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Re: DUTCH OPEN/ASSEN 2009 - Here we go again!


onyourtoes Joined on 12 Φεβ 2007 Total posts: 657	Re: DUTCH OPEN/ASSEN 2009 - Here we go again! Τετάρτη, 6 Μαΐου 2009 1:28 μμ Do IDSF learn nothing? Two years on and IDSF have been made to look incompetent and completely foolish by their vindictive actions as they attempt to destroy the best competition in the Netherlands and the No. 1 Fun event in the world. To them dancers do not count. Worse by their own previous Press Release they know they act illegally. They act in contravention of the Treaty of Rome and they act because they realise they do not have the loyalty of those forced into their arms. Now here we go again with their "may not" etc etc. and wonderful Assen will again be a great event. The people who should feel the greatest shame and hang their heads are the members of the Dutch IDSF body NADB who have neither the courage nor the desire for the good of dance to say "ENOUGH we sanction this great event which is good for dancing and good for the Netherlands" By that act alone they destroy the IDSF ban.
quicktime2 Joined on 31 Αυγ 2007 Total posts: 181	Re: DUTCH OPEN/ASSEN 2009 - Here we go again! Παρασκευή, 8 Μαΐου 2009 1:59 πμ Well said onyourtoes. It would be refreshing if NADB polled their members to see if their members want to ban ASSEN. Maybe this could be an issue for their next election. I find it difficult to understand how they get re-elected.
onyourtoes Joined on 12 Φεβ 2007 Total posts: 657	Re: DUTCH OPEN/ASSEN 2009 - Here we go again! Σάββατο, 9 Μαΐου 2009 7:21 πμ Hi quicktime2, thank you for the support. The situation in the Netherlands is a complicated one and as I understand it the dancers themselves are not members of NADB but rather a dance club/school/studio. It is the Principals of that "Club" who are the NADB member- I have sent you a private message. It seems that a few people are being "rewarded" by IDSF and IPDSC with increased judging offers for IDSF and IPDSC Championships and "Opens".
onyourtoes Joined on 12 Φεβ 2007 Total posts: 657	Re: DUTCH OPEN/ASSEN 2009 - Here we go again! Δευτέρα, 1 Ιουνίου 2009 9:24 πμ Competitors need more and NOT less events. Competitors deserve events organised to the high standards of Assen. Dancers cannot afford to lose Assen Only vandals would work or collaborate to destroy. On the NADB web site they are writing about the IDSF bans following Assen 2008 and the WDC Am League World Championships. They say....................... The Board of the NADB regrets the situation greatly. Almost all top Netherlands latin couples out for at least six months. They complain for these couples no international competitions (Not true there were UK Open, Blackpool and other events in England, France, Germany and Italy) and also no traditional title events World/European and no IDSF events, not even at in Tilburg in the Netherlands. They complain that in addition, the suspended couples were removed from the IDSF World Rankings. They conclude all in all, this is not good for the development of dancesport in the Netherlands and certainly not for the (international) dance career of the athletes. They believe there must be good agreement with the dancers and trainers, so arrangements are made to avoid a recurrence of this situation in the future. The solution is there and in their own hands. Recognise the Dutch Open and IDSF can no longer say it is not sanctioned by their Netherlands member. No longer be party to damaging the careers of dancers if this is what they believe. Tell the IDSF that by the IDSF own admission their bans etc are illegal and in breach of European Law and the Treaty of Rome and that NADB are not willing to support illegal actions. http://www.dancesportinfo.net/Forum/6356/PostList.aspx Tell the IDSF they will no longer support harm being done to Netherlands dancesport and the careers of the dancers. The NADB should be bringing legal action against IDSF on behalf of their members for these reasons and in view of the Press Release of the IDSF. The Dutch Latin Champions have enjoyed fairly successful results at the UK Open and Blackpool (reaching the Rising Stars Final) and I applaud them and hope they will never allow illegal acts to damage their dance careers. They have shown courage and integrityand now the NADB should show the same courage and integrity.
SambamanX Joined on 01 Ιουν 2009 Total posts: 1	Re: DUTCH OPEN/ASSEN 2009 - Here we go again! Δευτέρα, 1 Ιουνίου 2009 6:06 μμ Hi there, The IDSF sanctions Assen 2009, not the NADB. When saying that the competition is not registered by the NADB(on idsf.net) it means that it is not organised by NADB and there will be no specific NADB-competitions(A-class, B-class, etc). As far as I know, the NADB does not sanction their own dancers when taking part of Assen 2009, the IDSF does. Most dancers in Holland love to dance at Assen and I'm sure most competitors of other countries love to dance there as well. But it is impossible for us Dutch dancers to take actions against IDSF, because we are not a member of NADB nor IDSF. NADB is too dependent of IDSF (€) to take this to CAS. Also for any couple sanctioned by IDSF it's way too expensive to take action by themselves, after all we're all poor dancers right. So the only thing we can do is unite as dancers against IDSF to let them now by CAS that they are wrong.
onyourtoes Joined on 12 Φεβ 2007 Total posts: 657	Re: DUTCH OPEN/ASSEN 2009 - Here we go again! Τετάρτη, 3 Ιουνίου 2009 3:37 μμ SambamanX you appear to me to be a dancer who loves Assen and I congratulate you. I am with you 100%. Dance Assen and avoid IDSF comps!! As you may have read earlier I understand that the dancers themselves do not belong to IDSF and they do not even belong to NADB. What a strange kind of democracy. I think we are slightly apart in our thinking on the IDSF "Registered" aspect. Almost every IDSF events considered as "registered" by National members are not run by the member organisation of the country. I know few IDSF member organisations who organise comps they always leave that to others. I do understand that the sanctions for 2008 came not from NADB but IDSF. This happened in other countries too. IDSF have no respect for their members and will interfere in the internal affairs of any country when it suits. It is my understanding that the NADB have not yet reached a final decision regarding Asssen 2009 Registration and they certainly have made no declaration to IDSF. On this basis the IDSF announcement on their website is, in polite language, premature. Perhaps NADB should ask that the annoucement be withdrawn. NADB should seek Legal Advice for the dancers and also the member who is the organiser of the event. As NADB say IDSF is harming Netherlands dancesport and the careers of the dancers and thus they should also seek assistance from the Dutch Sport Federation. Unlike the IDSF who like to take money from member countries Dutch Sport Federation actually give funding to NADB NADB should follow its only policy stated officially as freedom to dance. Recognise Assen and then let the dancers decide. CU in Assen!!
koningisidoor Joined on 26 Μαϊ 2008 Total posts: 7	Re: DUTCH OPEN/ASSEN 2009 - Here we go again! Πέμπτη, 4 Ιουνίου 2009 11:33 πμ The IDSF and the WDC are competitors. They both want more couples, money, power, or whatever. The same goes for your local supermarkets. The supermarkets operate in a free trade environment, so do the IDSF and WDC. There is only one big difference with the situation the supermarkets are in. The supermarkets are run by business people who understand how business works. Supermarket 1 will never go to Supemarket 2, write down all the names of their competitor's customers and then tell them they can't enter their store because they've been to the competitor's! all customers would go away. There is however a company that does, Microsoft. MS virtually restricts it's customers from any software from it's competitors. MS can do that because it was in a monopoly position. In our tiny dance world this is happening: The IDSF is presented a monopoly position by the dancers themselves. In The Netherlands the IDSF quickly scared the majority of couples from going to Assen 2007 and leaving us with only IDSF competitions, by threatening us with suspention. Even Sambaman, who says he wants Assen to continue to be the Most Specacular Dance Festival In The World, didn't dance in Assen because of the thread. Only 12 Dutch standard and 24 latin couples danced Assen 2007. Last year, 2008 that was 6 standard and 11 latin!!! In 2006 (before this mess) it was 31 and 35 Dutch couples dancing Assen (only counting the open amateur standard and latin). What happend is that the IDSF first thread the couples with suspention if they would danc in Assen 2007. The result was 80% of the standard and 70% of the Dutch latin couples running away scared as hell. Now having been given the monopoly, the logical step for the IDSF was to actually ban Assen in 2008 and suspend all couples that did compete. Just because those 80% and 70% said it was OK.  And it bloody works!!! Only 20% standard and 30% Dutch latin couples are left of the entries in 2006............ So in other words; we as dancers are responsible for what happens in our world, the IDSF and WDC are nothing without us, the dancers, who compete in their competitions. WE decide to wich supermarket we go to (the cheapest, the closest, or the best). WE decide which competition we want to dance!! I can NOT understand how dancers, who are given the choice between Assen and a few IDSF's of inferior quality, choose for those few IDSF comps in the 6 months after Assen!!!?? (a lot of the couples not going to Assen because of the suspntion didn't even dance all or any IDSF's) Let this be clear. I believe the WDC has the wrong goals, but uses the right means to get there and the IDSF has the right goal, but the wrong means to get there. I don't fall for the WDC's freedom crap, there is little future there IMO. I do go for the opportunities (and money) the IDSF strives to create in the road they have chosen to follow. But is Ronaldo suspended by the FIFA, if he plays a game of football with the club in his hometown? Even if that club doesn't do doping tests, pay contribution to the FIFA or use the same rules? I don't think so!!! DANCERS, SUPPORT DANCING AND DANCE IN ASSEN 2009, STOP THE IDSF'S ILLEGAL RESTRICTIONS BY IGNORING THEM. Register for Assen under a different name if you have to. That is not against any rule of the IDSF not the WDC and will frustrate the IDSF administration when it wants to suspend. I wish you all a nice set of big balls and CU in Assen!! Joost Offermans, The Netherlands
jazz Joined on 07 Απρ 2005 Total posts: 444	Re: DUTCH OPEN/ASSEN 2009 - Here we go again! Πέμπτη, 4 Ιουνίου 2009 1:05 μμ koningisidoor I cannot select a single part of your post to Quote. You are touching all right buttons. It is unfortunate your post shall be viewed by so few, hidden in an obscure Member's Forum. Your post need be copied and appear in the more popular Political Forum, even copied, printed out and posted on the bulletin boards of our dance clubs. A good idea remains just that, a good idea, unless acted upon. Your idea and analysis is good, impartial, and as such not offending anyone, and a welcome change. I have been saying for years, the power is in the hands of the dancers, the dancers empower their associations by their actions, which are mostly, and unfortunately an inaction. By doing so dancers allow their associations to do whatever they wish, and what they wish is mostly self-serving . In the absence of dancers' active participation in forming association's policies, rules and procedures the absent/inactive/ not participating dancers in fact support, endorse and vote in their representatives, and all what happens to them. It is not by accident that in the forums such as this one you see just a few dancers participating in political discussions, commenting just about gowns, hair styles, or informing us of couples splits and formation of new partnerships. The dancers see themselves as competitors, who compete one against another, dancers are divided and as divided have lost the power and have become just powerless pawns in the hands of chess players. I completely agree with your sentiment. I completely agree that the dancers can make the change. Having the balls is just a 50% solution, 50 % of the dance partnership is a women....you would not want what you wish to be true , the answer and the solution is in dancers actively participating in their associations annual meetings, paying attention to issues, agreeing ahead of the meetings what they want- as dancers, and association members, who would represent their interests the best, showing up at the meetings, and voting for what they believe is in their best interest. I do not believe the dancers, who have repeatedly stressed " we want to dance" would ever vote against dancing in a particular event, whether sanctioned by WDC, IDSF or a local charity organisation. Live and let live, Supermarket 1 can co-exist with Supermarket 2 , either has the right to entice the new customers via club memberships, offering superior and better quality products, offering discounts and better service. It is up to us, the customer to decide which Supermarket to shop in, be it 1, or 2, or 1 and 2. Dancers, it is time for you to get together, and take active part, reclaim the power you have lost. Go. and vote at your association annual meetings, tell your representatives what you want. Unfortunately, this has been a beaten path, and not even Jazz believes the dancers visit and read what the few remaining forum participants propose, probably because these writers spend most of their time drumming their chests , trying to out do one another, and be right, rather than concerned with what is good for the dancers. Well done Joost Offermans, this first post by koningisidoor is worthy a response from one who represents sentiment of so many.
onyourtoes Joined on 12 Φεβ 2007 Total posts: 657	Re: DUTCH OPEN/ASSEN 2009 - Here we go again! Πέμπτη, 4 Ιουνίου 2009 3:42 μμ jazz the answer and the solution is in dancers actively participating in their associations annual meetings, paying attention to issues, agreeing ahead of the meetings what they want- as dancers, and association members, who would represent their interests the best, showing up at the meetings, and voting for what they believe is in their best interest. Dancers, it is time for you to get together, and take active part, reclaim the power you have lost. Go. and vote at your association annual meetings, tell your representatives what you want. ---- Jazz thank you for visiting my Members Forum and contributing. You should be delighted that, as I type, this one topic has had 1400 views. I am sorry that you have not realised that so far as Netherlands dancers are concerned they have no voice, no vote and no AGM to attend. They are not even members of NADB the Dutch IDSF member! I do agree that they can get together, refuse to dance IDSF events and compete at Assen in force. With you Joost 100% on that BTW Joost may I congratulate you and your partner on being honoured by your inclusion in the IDSF Banned List of 21st January 2009. You can proudly show your battle scars!! Those of us who really care about DanceSport and its future will never surrender to illegal acts and ugly threats. C U in Assen
koningisidoor Joined on 26 Μαϊ 2008 Total posts: 7	Re: DUTCH OPEN/ASSEN 2009 - Here we go again! Πέμπτη, 4 Ιουνίου 2009 5:40 μμ There is just one thing I want to add, then you can copy it (together with the following) wherever you see fit. From this situation only one federation can come out the stronger one. It only will if it is able to move to the centre. Or the IDSF and all the national federations stop the sanctioning and start working on how to make their competitions as attractive/attractive/quality as Assen, Blackpool, you name them. Or the WDC should provide it's members with really thought through plans for the future, offer them the possibilities of funding and so forth and gain recognition from the IOC and it's national counterparts. Because that's where the money is and that's where the future of a bigger, better, and stronger Competitive Dancing is. I wish the half of you a nice big pair of balls!! (better?) Post it anywhere you want, just tell me where you did.